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5 Minute interview with Dr Shirley Woods-Gallagher

Updated: Nov 14


During Disability History Month, which starts today, All4Inclusion plan to publish a number of, what we describe as '5 minute interviews' with people who are known as Disability Campaigners or Role Models


We published the first 5 Minute Interview on Monday which was with Scott Whitney, the founder of All4Inclusion. Today we are publishing our interview with Dr Shirley Woods-Gallagher who asked us to point out that the views expressed below in the interview are HER OWN and not about where she works now.


  1. Can I start by asking you to tell us a little about yourself?


I am an unapologetic, empowered Autistic woman. I lead public services in Greater Manchester. I am a recipient of a UNESCO and International Federation of Inclusive Practitioners Global Inclusion Award 2024 for my leadership.


I am a Trustee for the Greater Manchester charity, Respect for All who provide counselling to people who are either Autistic and/or have a learning disability. The charity won the MACC Spirit of Manchester Campaign Award in 2023 and a UNESCO IFIP Global Inclusion Award 2024 for social impact.


I am also a member of the Advisory Panel for Children’s Viewing at the British Board of Film Classification. I am also an Advisor for Invest in Play.


My expertise as a writer, speaker, book reviewer, public servant and advisor has enabled me to drive critical discussions on neuroinclusion from an intersectional perspective, helping organisations and individuals alike become intentionally neuroinclusive. Through my work, I will continue to make neuroinclusion in Greater Manchester my mission.


2. Many disabled people do not consider themselves to be disabled; do you think or yourself or describe yourself as disabled?


I am disabled by society. I own my Autism.


Like many other women whose needs were not met for decades at school, at home, in the community, at work and in the NHS my body has kept the score on complex trauma. I meet the legal definition of disability as so many organs are impacted by me not being diagnosed much earlier in life. My case is not unique by a country mile.


My power lies in calling out so called “Masking”. When we delayer what that means it is a fawning trauma response. We are not late diagnosed as we are, “So good at masking.” We are gaslight and coerced and controlled. There needs to be a significant shift in understanding this.


3. You are known as a disability campaigner, what inspired you or motivated you to become a campaigner.


I was nowhere near ready to be out in my personal life let alone professional one when my Autism was shared at work. My beloved father had died of covid just weeks into the pandemic. I was rock bottom. It took every crumb of strength to stand up and say, "Yes I am Autistic. What is your point here?" Then share it with everyone to even try and own the narrative at work.


Debilitating does not even come close. It was horrific, lonely, isolating, and terrifying. I had no idea how this would pan out. I had to take the leap of faith of my life it would work out as I hold steadfast that Emmanuel Kant was right. Most people are intrinsically kind. Sometimes even the smallest steps on the roughest of terrains in the most brutal weather conditions, do in the end, climb the biggest mountains. I have never been more at peace with myself than when I wear my Autism with authentic pride. Leadership is about being both the ladder and the lamp to Gen Z and Gen Alpha. They need more Autistic adults out at work.


4. What do you think are the biggest barriers facing disabled people and preventing them from reaching their full potential and fully participating in society?


Ignorance.


By that I mean large swathes of neurotypical people not knowing very much at all about Autistic lived experiences from actual Autistic people.


This makes these moments, teachable. They want to know more. That is a positive thing. They do not ask why. They want to know how.


I am experienced enough in life to know there is not the first few times in my life around the block on hate. Within everyone out there hate will always exist. But if we can tip the balance of far more people being neuroaffirmative we can tip the balance in our favour. I genuinely believe that.


Pride inspires me every day. I am not saying everything is perfect in the Pride movement. However, general society attitudes are world away from where they were in the 1970s and 80s. Being out Autistic in a senior leadership position is like living in a parallel cos play last century. That’s what needs to change and for the world to catch up on.


5. Can you give any examples of barriers that you have faced? Did you overcome them? If so, how?


I have faced far too many to list for a five-minute interview.


I will also only ever share wounds and not scars.


The greatest barrier I ever overcame was having to share my own Autism at work when I was nowhere near ready. I was so incredibly vulnerable.

Sometimes, I wish I could leap back in time to hold my own hand and tell me that it will all work out in the end. As it has. Love wins.


6. As a disabled person what is the biggest barrier either facing you or disabled people generally that you would like the new Government to take action on


How can any Government see uncomfortable truths and do nothing?


Thirty percent OF PEOPLE WHO ARE “OUT” ABOUT THEIR AUTISM AT WORK ARE IN PAID EMPLOYMENT IN THE UK (source DWP 2024)


Sixty-five percent of neurodivergent people would NOT disclose this to their line manager at work through fear of it being used against them (source University of Birkbeck 2023)


Of the experiences of 128,000 disabled people on the Government’s flagship 2016 Disability Confident Scheme demonstrate that it has had 0% impact (source Prof Kim Hoque’s UCL research 2024)


Thirty-six percent OF AUTISTIC GRADUATES ARE UNABLE TO FIND WORK WITHIN 15 MONTHS (SOURCE BUCKLAND REVIEW 2024)


6 in 10 of all disabled people in the UK are in paid work today. Whilst it is just 3 in 10 for Autistic people.


It is an outrageous waste of talent


If we can get Autism paid employment rates to the same benchmark as all disabled people that is worth £1.5 billion per annum to HMT (source ProBono Economics). This is worth more than Treasury receipts for the Pension Winter Fuel Allowance at £1.3 billion.


Choose a lane wisely. Neuroinclusion is a catalyst for growth.


7. Do you think that the British media and the British public have an open and positive attitude towards disability and disabled people? If not, why not?


If you believe everything you see/read on social media, broadcast, and newspaper reports then you will not get a rounded picture. I refuse to get swept up in online culture wars. They waste my energy. I value myself more. I life in the everyday moment of who I meet day to day and the vast majority are decent people.


Am I starting conversations many have never had before about Autism at work at Executive level? Absolutely.


There are so many teachable moments for them and I.


The moment we think there is nothing left to share, and nothing left to learn, then we are dead already. Engage with folk you meet in person. Those are meaningful connections.


8. Now the ‘Assisted Dying Bill’ is receiving a lot of coverage in the media. What is your opinion of the bill? Do you agree with it? Do you have any concerns? Is a private members bill the best way or the correct way to change the law on such an important issue?


I have very deep concerns as someone who had to shield during the pandemic what this will mean in practice. I knew the ventilators were not being saved for me should I be admitted to a covid ward like my dad.

Autistic and disabled? I would have been bottom of the pops. I would like to see the Member presenting this to Parliament have a strong public record on neuroinclusion and disability rights. But she doesn’t. Her comments about us are performative at best. It is a chilling debate. I hope it does not pass. The optics are horrendous in the context of neurodivergent lived experiences.


9. Is there anything else you are happy to share about your life experiences as a disabled person?


Be your authentic self. I am authentically proud to be Autistic. Autism made me. If someone else has a problem with me saying this then the clue is in the sentence; it is their problem.



Don't forget to register for the 'official launch of Disability History Month UK' TONIGHT starting at 7.00pm. You can register and reserve your FREE place at this online webinar by following this link https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/launch-united-kingdom-disability-history-month-2024-ukdhm-tickets-1037803356777

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